Listen to this fascinating discussion on The Dividing Line of Michael Brown’s new book, A Queer Thing Happened To America, which chronicles the efforts of the last forty years in which unrepentant sodomites have managed to rehabilitate their image in America and politically pressure everyone else to affirm them not only as socially acceptable, but a positive and healthy lifestyle suitable for raising children, and their efforts to redefine marriage while helping slander true, biblical marriage between males and females. You can link to the program from this post.
If that isn’t enough, Dr. James White also expounded Genesis chapter 19 at Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church, reminding us all of many important truths about how it was the abomination of sodomy that brought judgment on Sodom and Gomorrah, not a mere violation of cultural norms regarding hospitality toward travellers, as sodomite apologists argue today. Listen to this eye-opening study. By the way, the title for this post is taken from White’s comments.
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister, Sodom: she and her daughters had pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them when I saw it. Ezekiel 16:49-50 (emphasis mine)
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. Leviticus 18:22 (emphasis mine)
I was hoping you had progressed by now Cap’n. All those passages are easily explained as part of the israeilite theocracy. We don’t have a theocracy anymore so…don’t be so judgmental. You may be accused of being a literal biblicist if your not careful.
We could all use a little regress on this issue–BACK to the Bible!
A literal biblicist!
What would I do without you guys? Go commentless, I guess. I was sure someone from Act Up or some other LGBT uber-rights advocate with a Google alert on Lev. 18:22 would’ve been all over me like white on rice by now…what a relief! 😉
THE PC(USA) at least one presbytery just decided to let ministers be gay or lesbian. It looks like the whole denomination will vote on it in June. It will pass. Machen’s Warrior Children are so close-minded.
I believe in keeping an open mind just long enough to learn the truth, and then I believe in closing it!
If I may, we do not know why god decided to destroy Sodom and Gomorra. The decision to destroy the cities was before his dialogue with Abraham, and we are not privy to the reasoning.
Of course they were wicked, but to say that they were destroyed for a specific reason is to speak in place of the scripture as we have it.
Then by all means, please expound Ezekiel 16:49-50 for us.
How many times is abomination used in the OT and in what circumstances? There are over a hundred uses – many different things are abominations… pride, arrogance, stealing from the poor, incense, sacrifices, etc. The word is not exclusively the domain of same sex fornication. In fact, by far and away the vast majority of its uses have nothing to do with fornication.
Several reasons for the destruction are given in v. 49, and none of them include homosexual rape. v.50 is a description of sentiment to echo the actions of v.49.
Yes, the Lord hates this kind of perversion, but no, it is not the reason given for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorra.
Do you disagree that any Old Testament passage that is commented on in the New Testament receives a commentary that has been “breathed out by God” (cf. 2 Tim. 3:16)?
What are we to make of the New Testament commentary on the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Jude 7?
“just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.”
Jude writing words thus breathed out by God in his letter explicitly identifies Sodom’s pursuit of unnatural desire (i.e., what we call “homosexuality” today), along with “sexual immorality” (unlawful sex between men and women), but omits Sodom’s “inhospitality,” when referring to their fate of “undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.” Indeed, Philo and the Apocrypha indicate to us that smoke still rose from the site of Sodom in the first century and to that generation served as a symbol of eternal divine judgment (Philo: “On Abraham” 141 & “Life of Moses” 2.56; Apocrypha: “Wisdom of Solomon” 10:7). Granted, Ezekiel identifies other sins, but as Jude highlights the sexual perversions of Sodom, we are not to omit these as part of what provoked God’s judgment on them.
I have not used any reference to “inhospitality”, although they certainly were. You have lumped me in with others who make completely different arguments and who are very wrong in their reading of scripture. I would never make such and argument and never have.
Scripture tells us that God had decided to destroy the place before the conversation with Abraham. Therefore we are not privy to the reason for the destruction. There is a clue in the Ezekiel passage, which, in its context is a reference for Israel… as they were treating each other as Sodom and Gomorra treated each other. Does that mean that the people of Israel were committing homosexual acts? That’s not the context and there’s no other indication that could be the intended meaning.
The Genesis story culminates in the sexual sin to show that the people were not only mistreating others, but that they mistreated visitors and were *even* so bad as to commit sexual perversion. It’s like: as if that wasn’t enough, they also did this!
The references in Jude clearly identify the grave sin, but it does not state it as the reason for the destruction. Nowhere in scripture is the reason for the destruction given. And we are beyond current revelation if we declare such.
“Nowhere in scripture is the reason for the destruction given. And we are beyond current revelation if we declare such.”
Really? Let’s take another look at the Ezekiel passage. I will leave out the actual offenses, and leave the explicit language which states that these are the reasons for their destruction:
“Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom. . . So I removed them, when I saw it(Ezekiel 16:49-50).”
Sorry, I can’t go with you on the point that Scripture nowhere gives the reason for their destruction.
As for Jude, it makes no sense that he would mention Sodom’s sins, then mention their fate is an example of eternal punishment, and expect the reader not to come away with the inference that the sins mentioned were associated with the judgment they underwent.
This paragraph I agree with:
“The Genesis story culminates in the sexual sin to show that the people were not only mistreating others, but that they mistreated visitors and were *even* so bad as to commit sexual perversion. It’s like: as if that wasn’t enough, they also did this!”
The fact that God had already decided to destroy them before his meeting with Abraham does not mean they were not destroyed for the reasons stated in Scripture. They were already called “wicked” and “great sinners before the LORD” in 13:13 when Lot moved near the city. I submit that we are to conclude that the sins revealed were all already going on in the city even before Lot had moved over there.