I infrequently read some of the more prominent Reformed blogs out there. This morning I decided to read the Calvinist Gadfly and while I was at work I wrote up this response to a question he raised in his post and emailed it home to myself to post it later. When I went to do so, I discovered that he just recently stopped taking comments due to his busier schedule this year. So, to get the whole story, read his post “The Trinity is the Gospel.” And then come back here and read my comment below. . .
In answer to your question, “why [do] some, who should know better, want to participate in ministry with T. D. Jakes?” My answer is the general fact that the American Evangelical concept of Christian unity has devolved from the orthodox concept of interdenominational Christian unity: “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.” To quote my first year Bible Doctrine teacher at Baptist Bible College, who without documentation quoted Harold John Ockenga as representative of all Neo-Evangelicals, “The Bible is the Word of God, but love is more important.”
Whether or not that quote is out of context is another whole discussion. But it is what the fundamentalists feared (probably both with and without just cause, depending on individual cases) about the “emerging” Neo-Evangelicalism of the ’40’s and ’50’s, and seems to be more true now than ever before, especially in the case of the aligning of Oneness Pentecostalism with post-modern, contemporary American Evangelicalism. It’s nothing a little Reformation couldn’t help. Thanks for your contribution.
Whether or not that quote is out of context is another whole discussion. But it is what the fundamentalists feared (probably both with and without just cause, depending on individual cases) about the “emerging” Neo-Evangelicalism of the ’40’s and ’50’s, and seems to be more true now than ever before, especially in the case of the aligning of Oneness Pentecostalism with post-modern, contemporary American Evangelicalism. It’s nothing a little Reformation couldn’t help. Thanks for your contribution.
It’s reasons like this that I’m currently promoting the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals in my sidebar and in a previous post.
The Misadventures of Captain Headknowledge 
“It’s nothing a little Reformation couldn’t help.”
Boy, John, that could be the answer to any and every question!
Boy, John, so much and so little time.
Could you pray that I get an additional two hours a day because of your misadventures?
michael
Bob,
That’s kinda the way I feel about it, too!
Michael,
Here’s a tip. When you’re pressed for time, just print out whatever you want to read and carry it with you to read at your leisure, jot down some comments on the back and post them the next time you get around to it. That’s what I do, sometimes.
Boy John,
thanks!
Now to the post at hand.
You sat under Dr. Ockenga’s?… disciple?
To T.D. Jakes, hmmmmmm.
I have heard a rumor of his position. You develop it quite succinctly though.
For him to miss that ELEMENTAL DOCTRINE calls into question his whole doctrine. hmmmmm
Two things. I have an answer for the issue you raise.
I have an answer for why he misses it.
I suggest an antedote after.
To the first then, when you read the Apostle Paul’s words to the Ephesian Church elders he obviously ordained to such, you might step back and marvel at his great abilitiy to be an EVANGELIST even with them:
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Ok, so Paul was secure in Apostolic Doctrines about the Christ then that his keen awareness of wolves and false, or may I add this, “misguided” brothers was not enough for him to do other than PREACH AND TEACH TRUTH to them knowing full well that his words were dead words unless the Holy Ghost made them living and meaningful to the hearers. Apparently those referred to there, [brethren from among themselves will arise speaking perverse things] ‘heard’ the Word, as is implied. They just did not have Christ, the “good” soil, in them by the Power of the Word and the Holy Ghost so that the Holy Ghost could not make those Words of effect affecting how they walked in obedience to the Faith; Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;…; Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Rom 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.
Now to number two:
I suppose T.D. Jakes would dispute Apostle Paul again when he reads what he wrote to the Church in Colossae:
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Parenthetically I might add, this did not please the devil, Lucifer, Satan, the great red dragon, the prince of the world that he too came from Christ! BOO!
I would have to agree with Bildad about T.D. Jakes that he might be serving “the firstborn of death” Satan, that false king of terrors when he teaches such flawed doctrines to men and not Jesus Christ, the firstborn from death, :
Job 18:13 It shall devour the strength of his skin: even the firstborn of death shall devour his strength.
Job 18:14 His confidence shall be rooted out of his tabernacle, and it shall bring him to the king of terrors.
On behalf of any reading this post I would assert that JESUS IS THE RED DIRT Adam was formed of mixed of course with the BREATH of God so that he became a living soul.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
It use to tick me off when I heard some guy being believed and followed when clearly they were not following Christ, the Son of the Living God but following the doctrines of demons and Satan.
Now I know how to pray for these misguided individuals, probably more accurately than for some who Walk uprightly with Christ!
I wonder what T.D. Jakes’ followers would think to hear that you and I did this to one such as T.D. Jakes?:::>
1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
hmmmmmm
What would they say then?
michael
No, I did not sit under Ockenga. My teacher at the fundamentalist Baptist Bible College quoted Ockenga as a proponent of “Neo-Evangelicalism,” just to give us a frame of reference about the movement. Neo-Evangelicalism was a step away from the separatism and lack of work in the realm of “social justice” or charity among fundamentalists of the early twentieth century. Ockenga was one of its early leaders as I think the first president of the National Association of Evangelicals. This movements accounts for most of what we see represented in the news nowadays. The now defunct president of the NAE, Ted Haggard, said once that “Evangelicalism is on a spectrum from Benny Hinn to R.C. Sproul.” For these two personalities to be able to be included on the same spectrum means that contemporary Evangelicalism has moved from unity on essentials and liberty on non-essentials to “liberty on essentials and liberty on non-essentials.” That’s a serious problem, and the reason I’m recently beating a drum for the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals on my webpage. It’s time to rebuild orthodox Evangelicalism from foundation up!
One of my Mentors, Jim Durkin, taught that sometimes God sends you in to jack up the building and repour the foundation because the foundation is faulty.
The foundation is not sand, but faulty. It takes a skill to jack up a building and remove the foundation and repour it or reset it on the RIGHT FOUNDATION.
I agree, that spectrum is mighty ugly and does not reflect the beauty of colors of the rainbow.
The following link to a Christian Research Journal article on T. D. Jakes should help boost the status of your awareness of Jakes’ theology from rumor to fact.
http://www.equip.org/free/DJ900.htm
John
just finished reading the article and it strikes a calm terror in me.
I am calm because I see how flippant I am about those things he feeds on in my weak human misguided flesh, THANK YOU ADAM.
I am terrified at what might be his eternal destiny!
Will he be saved but his works burnt up by the Refiner’s FIRE? And 85,000 followers in his errors is quite a loss!
I just don’t know but it does bring to mind something I heard long ago about SIN and me.
A billionaire’s butler/driver died. The old man was the young boy’s favorite guy provided him by his wealth and power and status as he grew up to be the rich ruler.
An add was quickly put in the paper asking for replacements to come and apply.
During one of those days of application three men sat in the waiting room waiting to be interviewed by the Rich Ruler. As they sat and talked pride got the best of two of them.
One guy trying to prove his worth as a safe driver said, well if hired I know that man will be safe by me. I can drive his car down a steep grade and get real close to the edge of the road, no problem.
That stirred the next guy who one uppeth him by saying, OH YEAH, well I can get closer to the edge than that and the man will be safe by me. As this discussion went along unbeknowns to these three the rich ruler was listening just out of sight.
The third man exclaimed, you two are nuts, if I was hired by this rich ruler and was asked to drive down a steep grade driving that man down that mountain decline, I would stay far away from the edge of the road and not take any chances.
Guess who he hired?
How did Jakes or anyone of us for that matter get so close to the edge?
I don’t want to get close to anything that might give our enemies credit to discredit Our Heavenly Father, Our Holy God or Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost. These THREE are ONE but each ONE is Who He Is, Self-existant and Eternal, each has a Will.
I don’t understand how someone is deceived like Jakes nor do I understand how one is set FREE from the deception as the article implies about that one man who was of the oneness camp but was delivered to TRUTH about the TRUE NATURE OF GOD. It has to be the mercy of God, don’t you think?
That’s my only hope anyway; I need a Savior, that He has made clear to me. I don’t have any confidence in my flesh. I don’t know how to judge even my own self anymore let alone another. Yet Paul writes what we read in 1 Cor. 6, hmmmmm?
His mercies are new every morning and as Psalms 6 reads:Psa 6:4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake.
Nothing there about my good looks or fine threads! It’s His MERCIES, and for HIS MERCIES’ SAKE. Puts a focus on Them and off me! You?
I can now respect what is right in the sight of every one but I am not believing anymore that everyone is right. Someone is wrong. Jesus Christ is the END OF THE LAW when it comes to Righteousness.
My self-helps program hasn’t helped me and I am at least merciful enough not to push it on others seeing the utter helplessness it is to me. Truth has set me free to Their Liberty.
Jakes might be rich. But will any of that matter on the day he breathes his last breath here? He might be surprised to learn his wisdom was of the flesh and not of God and his teachings were a stumbling block and an not Their exhortation!
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called Today; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
I pray that God would clear up the confusion in his life and he would just start calling things what they are and stop victimizing what God clearly places at Adam’s feet:
Rom 5:17 For if by one man’s offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)